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Welcome to the Sun on Sunday from PB NightHawks

February 25th, 2012

How’s it going to do?

The big news about the news overnight will be the launch of the Sun on Sunday which seems to have been developed at break-neck speed. Given it was less than a fortnight ago that Rupert Murdoch made his intentions clear it is really amazing that we have got to this stage so quickly.

Part of this is, of course, a reaction to the dramatic arrests at the paper earlier in the month. This is Rupert showing the world that he is still about and his empire is alive and kicking

We await the first edition with interest.

Mike Smithson @MikeSmithsonOGH




  • tim

    Don’t worry about me, ROI on here way above 50%, and that donate button bets, welchers and protected slow paying high rollers with vivid imaginations

  • Neil

    Did weathercock ever pay up in the end? In cash form rather than his equally valuable absence.

  • Marquee Mark

    You say that like £100 means something to me….

    I make personal life choices where I pit safe six figure sums against making speculative seven figure sums. Now THAT is gambling!

  • tim

    No.

  • Neil

    “I make personal life choices where I pit safe six figure sums against
    making speculative seven figure sums. Now THAT is gambling!”

    And when you need excitement there’s always the birdwatching!
    ;)

  • Anonymous

    Most of the discussions about how 2015 will pan out are based on this parliament.  But when we get there it’ll be about leaders and manifestos, and plans for the next 5 years.  Mood music from the past will matter, which is why labour will want to talk about the NHS (and avoid the economy – fat chance of that working) but it’s silly to declare any party doomed based on this parliament; it’s plans for the next that will matter come 2015.

  • Anonymous

    Not only was there a lot of borrowed money spent and nothing done to curb our domestic deficit (to do that would have involved pre election austerity, instead we had a relative pre election boom) but the real problems were not addressed such that Europe is still in crisis.

  • tim

    I wish you’d told me that when you were obviously getting things wrong before the election.

  • Marquee Mark

    Indeed!

    There is nothing quite like the hope that a stupidly rare (and usually hopelessly lost) bird will stay around long enough to be “ticked” to get the pulse racing.  A nice distraction from life’s other  little tribulations…

  • Marquee Mark

    I get the big calls right.  Like who will be Prime Minister.

    And I could tell you how much I made on Friday alone, but your head would explode…  Suffice it to say the Chancellor will be happy with his windfall…

  • tim

    I’m pleased for you, you are brighter and more deserving than 60 or 70% of the PB Tories.
    And you settle your bets immediately.

  • http://www.youtube.com/ajs41#p/p Andy JS

    Anyone think Julia Gillard will be out of office by Monday evening? The bookies don’t seem to think so.

  • Socrates

    Must read piece in the New York Mag about the GOP race and the future of the party:

    http://nymag.com/news/features/gop-primary-heilemann-2012-3/

    I also note in it that the mainstream media is catching up to what I’ve been saying for a long time: after 2012, there’s a coming civil war in the Republican party, and I can’t see the moderates winning.

  • Marquee Mark

    Thank you.

  • tim

    Usually Hilary Clinton may be seen as too old by 2016.
    But I can’t help thinking that she may really fancy driving the stake into that lot, and her approval ratings are stratospheric.

  • Marquee Mark

    “the most volatile, unpredictable, and just plain wackadoodle Republican-nomination contest ever”

    Hard to argue with that. 

    I feel that the Tea Party for the Republicans is much like Militant was to Labour.  They needed to be ejected and wither under the gaze of independent whack-job status.  They were clearly a Party-within-a-Party.

  • Anonymous

     Given how the economy seems unlikely to have picked up anywhere near enough for most people to feel as though the recession has passed (case in point being the recession feel of the current not-official-recession), I should think Labour will make a big deal of the economy in 2015, especially with the coalition missing their own stated goals on deficit reduction.

    The argument will be made that Labour were still the ones responsible for causing a big economic mess (just as Labour still argued about things still being the Tories fault 13 years after they were in power), but the general feeling I get from people is that they are already turning to the opinion that if the government has 5 years to fix things and haven’t (or it feels to people like they haven’t), then they will take the brunt of a lot of anger – after all, it will have been five years of pain, with potentially not much to show for it, as opposed to theoretical pain from Labour.

    To put this in context, the area I live in is bluer than a clear sky where Labour barely place, let alone compete. Therefore, I am far from assuming Labour will not be able to make an argument on the economy that could play to the public – it is working partially already in this staunch Tory heartland.

  • Anonymous

     I believe you.

  • Neil

    What’s HRC going to be doing for the next 4 years I wonder? Tbh I dont think she’d be a good candidate for the Dems running for a 3rd straight Presidential term in 2016 but I wouldnt rule it out.

  • Anonymous

    This suggests Gillard still has the upper hand despite the headline

    Australia’s Gillard Suffers Setback

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203960804577244121509669182.html

  • Anonymous

    Ed Miliband will be our Prime Minister in 2015, or sooner if there is a breakdown inthe Coalition. If I had a reputation I would bet it on that.

    I very much hope you will be in a position to laugh at me for believing that.

  • Anonymous

    They are bound to get something of a bump if the economy picks up enough that people actually feel it, surely? Simply as being proved partly ‘right’ will secure some votes. Not enough to save them, too many jumped the second they worked with the Tories long before they got hit by Tuition fees or the like, which indicates they are unlikely to come back, but even if the Tories, as now, appear to be hit less hard by negativity from being in government, they will get some improvement I think.

    If it happens – I don’t think the economy will pick up as he said. Next year we’ll get revised predictions and a new deficit reduction target in 10 years as opposed to 7 (formerly 5).

  • Anonymous

    “You say that like £100 means something to me….”

    You make me sick ;) Have some compassion for us poor people and don’t flash it about like that!

    Good night everybody.

  • http://twitter.com/Kateshon Kateshon

    That’s awesome, Mark!

    I’m curious : what do you do to earn so much cash?

  • tim

    “A loss is what the GOP’s political class now expects. “Six months before this thing got going, every Republican I know was saying, ‘We’re gonna win, we’re gonna beat Obama,’ ” says former Reagan strategist Ed Rollins. “Now even those who’ve endorsed Romney say, ‘My God, what a fucking mess.’”

  • http://www.youtube.com/ajs41#p/p Andy JS

    One of my favourite Harry Enfield clips – Les the forgetful barman:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxg60c2CRjM&amp

  • The Sunil on Sunday

     The Sunil on Sunday backs Ed to win the next election.

  • old_labour
  • Neil

    “Charles Clarke says labour leadership is failing.”

    Good old, Charles, it’s sweet that any paper thinks his views are worth reporting.

  • Neil

    o/t – Sinn Fein up to 25% in the polls in the Republic. I think it’s mostly a temporary blip now that every other party in the country is directly associated with the austerity measures being imposed. Next GE might see more SF seats but I doubt they’ll be the 2nd biggest party!

  • old_labour

    20 Lib dem peers to vote against Clegg’s plans for an elected second chamber.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/9106513/Labours-leadership-is-failing-warns-Charles-Clarke.html

  • tim

    Wish I’d asked for odds on Martin McGuinness attending Ian Paisleys funeral twenty years ago.

  • Anonymous

    kle4

    I am not convinced that a poorly performing economy will harm the Tories. People vote more to the right in economic hard times: 2010, 1992, 1983, 1979, 1973, 1920′s and 1930′s. People vote more to the left when the economy is doing well and they are financially comfortable enough to be feeling generous, and other issues come to the fore.

    A slow recovery may well play to the Tories advantage rather than the Labour party.

  • tim

    There’s thick, then there’s Toby Young.

    “Toby Young, The Sun on Sunday’s political columnist, risked alienating potential readers before the newspaper’s launch today, referring to the killing of schoolgirl Milly Dowler as “that murdered girl thing” on Twitter.

    Young’s comment has offended those associated with the family, and provoked a Twitter storm. Solicitor Mark Lewis, representing the Dowler family, said: “I do not intend to dignify his comment by saying why it was wrong. If that is the standard of journalism at The Sun on Sunday then it seems that they have learnt nothing from the past.”

    Young had written to the comic writer Graham Linehan on Twitter: “That murdered schoolgirl thing? Check The Guardian story. Turned out to be balls. Get off your high horse.”

    Young told The Independent on Sunday that his comments were in the context of a Twitter spat with Linehan. “He referred to Milly Dowler as the ‘murdered girl’ and asked me how I could work for Murdoch. I was pointing out that The Guardian’s original story, in which Nick Davies accused Glenn Mulcaire of having deleted Milly Dowler’s voicemail messages, turned out to be wrong. Quite a serious error, given that it led to the closure of a national newspaper,” he said.

    News International chose not to comment, nor respond to whether Rupert Murdoch would be taking any action against Young.

    Young wrote of his own appointment: “When I open the new paper on Sunday and see my picture byline I’ll feel a warm glow of happiness.” He may now be hoping that his comments do nothing to take away from that glow.”

  • old_labour

    My favourite Charles Clarkes story about a television appearance he did:

    Clarke had belligerently berated the crew about his

         ear piece being faulty, and messing up

         his live appearance, before storming off.

         The sound technician quickly discovered what

         the problem was. The ear piece had been

         jammed… with an enormous piece of ear wax.

  • Neil

    Euw!

    He probably stormed off to a pub. Or to a meeting with a journalist to brief against his colleagues. Or to brief against his colleagues in a pub.

  • old_labour

    Scotland On Sunday claims there are moves to oust Eric Joyce and force a by-election. Cannot see him doing that. He is not exactly backward in coming forward when claiming for expenses plus I cannot imagine Labour wanting to risk a by-election defeat.

    ERIC Joyce’s constituency Labour colleagues will today demand that
    the troubled politician does the “honourable thing” and stands down as
    an MP – even if it means triggering a by-election.

    Labour politicians in the Falkirk
    constituency will discuss the controversy engulfing the MP at a meeting
    of the constituency party. Joyce has already been suspended from the
    party following an alleged incident in the House of Commons bar last
    week that resulted in the MP being charged with three counts of assault.

    Yesterday
    Labour sources acknowledged that there were “very serious questions”
    about the 51-year-old former Army officer’s “mental state”.

    The
    mounting anger and concern over the assault allegations that resulted
    in Joyce being detained in a police cell for almost 24 hours will
    dominate today’s meeting of the local party….

    http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/uk/labour_tries_to_oust_eric_joyce_1_2139760

  • old_labour

    Romney hired a stadium in Michigan with capacity for 70,000 and only 1200 showed up.

    Mr Romney, a local boy whose campaign once portrayed him as the “inevitable”
    candidate to challenge Barack Obama, had intended to shore up his standing
    on Friday with what was flagged as showpiece address on the economy.

    Instead, he produced a clunker in Motown. His delivery was lacklustre, his ideas rehashed from earlier speeches and his venue was a campaign presentation team’s nightmare – an audience of 1,200 in a cavernous sports stadium with room for 70,000.

    Asked about his prospects of beating President Obama in November, he managed to play down his own hopes. “I don’t think I have the best chance, I have the only chance – that may be overstating it a bit,” he
    said, chuckling awkwardly afterwards.

    Even his attempts to curry favour with the car industry – whose bail-out under Mr Obama he pointedly opposed – fell flat. The multi-millionaire served up fresh ammunition for critics who portray him as an out-of-touch elitist by listing the many American-made cars in his garages – including his wife Ann’s two Cadillacs…

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/republicans/9106056/US-election-2012-will-the-wastelands-of-Motor-City-be-the-end-of-the-road-for-Mitt-Romney.html

  • Anonymous

    Welcome to a new Sunday paper. Just catching up on the last thread and the music discussion. Talking from a Scottish perspective, it was quite simple an amazing time for Scottish bands and also for going to concerts. Annie Lennox and Eurythmics were just out of this world live. Fond memories of everything from The Cult to Simple Minds live, and of course the utterly amazing RunRig. A band who caused Radio 1 to splutter when they hit and entered the UK top 20 after the incredible Loch Lomand Concert on the back of an amazing pre order up here in Scotland.

    But stand out albums is a much tougher cookie, and for all those that now find it easy to knock U2, they forget two quite simple stand alone superb albums. WAR and The Joshua Tree, nuff said. And another amazing artist, Stevie Nicks from Fleetwood Mac, she produced a couple of classic albums that showed her talent within the band.

  • old_labour

    Free wifi on the main Glasgow and Edinburgh rail line. It could be extended across the country.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/on_board_wi_fi_boost_for_rail_commuters_1_2139355

     

  • old_labour

    Does anyone know if raisins count towards your five a day? 

  • Anonymous

     ’the Beatles toured all over before they made it and they honed their
    skills on touring stages. That option isn’t available today.’

    We have all the Beatles back catalogue because Fitaloon is a fan, but is it okay to admit that I was never a fan? Seriously, only ever liked Norwegian Wood. Go figure….

  • Anonymous

     ’The Sun on Sunday is SOOOOOO annoying lefties. Delicious’

    Been hilarous on Twitter, especially the lefties comments and the other nationals who go out a Sunday desperate to spoil the launch. But its healthy to see everyone making an effort.

  • Neil

    “Wish I’d asked for odds on Martin McGuinness attending Ian Paisleys funeral twenty years ago.”

    Your restraint in resisting the temptation to make a cheap jibe comparing the odds to those of David Cameron attending Nelson Mandela’s is noted and welcomed!

  • Tim B

    It’s OK not to be a Beatles fan!

    My daughter likes Runrig by the way

  • Neil

    “is it okay to admit that I was never a fan?”

    No! You’ll be demanding the right to be allowed a view on Scottish politics next!

  • tim

    The people who were paying David Camerons expenses hoped Mandela would die in jail.

  • Anonymous

     ’Lets see.

    Deletiing emails and children with special needs may have consequences’

    Not really, we all remember how Blair wanted to abolish all specialist schools so we could intergrate. And I definitely saw the resentment of many parents like yourself Tim, especially those who witnessed and resented what extra support going to specific children more challenged than their own.

  • tim

    Let’s not get into the sick use of your child again.

  • Anonymous

    ‘Well he’s got mates running Ofsted and handing out ‘advice’ and waiting
    on the sidelines to pick at the carcass so… hey ho. Fancy a long bet
    he’ll be on all the private co boards of directors within a year of
    leaving Govt?

    I actually agreed with some of his initial rhetoric
    – redressing the power balance in the classroom, more subject rigour
    etc. But all he’s done since he’s gone all burning martyr is slag us
    off.’

    Got to ask, do you or Tim have a child with any special needs going though the current education system? Glad you feel free to make light political jokes about families in these circumstances.

  • tim

    Last time you broached this subject you used your child to claim moral superiority on the issue of autism, lying about funding cuts under the last Govt.
    Now I could accept you not knowing what you were saying, but given you claim special knowledge through your Childs condition I have to presume you knew you were lying.

    Now take a break, because you did the same act after trying to use every soldiers still warm corpse against the last Govt, then suddenly fell silent after the election.

  • http://edmundintokyo.wordpress.com/ Edmund in Tokyo

    The Sun On Sunday was not “developed at breakneck speed”. It’s a new name for the News of the World, after a bit of a business reorganization. It was obvious Murdoch was going to do this when he “closed” the News of the World, and he was probably planning the move well before that.

  • The Sunil on Sunday
  • old_labour

    Thanks, Sunil. What a relief. I ate half a pound of chocolate raisins half an hour ago. Now I can feel virtuous about my healthy eating habits. 

  • Anonymous

    Syria: So Assad calls a halt to the Red Cross/Red Crescent effort after precisely a day or so. 

    Why? After letting them in stop so soon? The Assad side suspects this is the opening shot at outside intervention and they are right, it is.  

    They seem, however, to have been caught between letting them in so it would avoid some hammer being waved if they weren’t allowed and the likelihood that letting them in then establishes a more ongoing presence that effectively takes the regime out of control of wherever that aid effort runs. 

    Thus the decision now is to halt proceedings and see if the West and Arab states make good on threats to take yet stronger measures. They are just about out of sanction and diplomatic measures worth doing so theres only one way left of real substance.

    Direct or indirect force.

    Watch this space. 

  • old_labour

    BBC 4 to have it’s £54 million budget by 30%. I think they could good value for the money if that is all the station costs. Perhaps the BBC should tell some of their overpaid “stars” to sling their hooks.

  • old_labour

    Attached is a Scottish subject that does not involve politics. The second is for both train enthusiasts and linguists, and the second is not a picture of the first.

  • old_labour

    I wonder if David Cameron is regretting his association with a company that employs David Blunkett as a lackey. Ironic that this company was given it’s first big contracts by Labour and the Government is copping the blame.

    • Supermarket group Sainsbury’s claimed that A4e had “persistently
    approached” its stores asking it to take on job seekers on unpaid work
    experience, “against our wishes”.
    • Fast-food chain Burger King became the latest firm to pull out of the Work Programme, citing “public concerns”.

    New figures show that the rate at which the long-term unemployed have
    come off benefits has halved since the launch of the Work Programme.

    Eighty-five charities working with large private firms to help people
    back into work have dropped out of the Work Programme since it was first
    launched in 2010, citing growing concerns that they were being muscled
    out of earnings.
    • The Department of Work and Pensions, it
    emerged, has exempted private companies in the Work Programme from
    inspections by Ofsted, the standards body that previously inspected
    companies involved in welfare and training.
    • Labour claimed that
    the government was aware of the suspected fraud at the offices of A4e
    just weeks before Harrison was made an adviser to Downing Street on
    family issues.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/feb/25/a4e-welfare-emma-harrison-properties?newsfeed=true

  • http://www.croydonloony.co.uk JohnLoony

    (OT) The most gorgeous man in the world tweeted a few hours ago for the first time in four months.  This reminds me of the fact that I am really, really glad that Charles Darwin was heterosexual.

  • http://www.croydonloony.co.uk JohnLoony

    (Previous Thread) Surely you’re suffereing from the reverse of “Post Hoc ergo Propter Hoc” fallacy? It all went belly-up just after Tony Blair resigned, because Tony Blair had resigned, and because Gordon Brown had taken over.

  • old_labour

     Who is the most gorgeous man in the world, if I might ask?.

  • old_labour

    Is this man a descendent of Charles Darwin?

  • http://www.croydonloony.co.uk JohnLoony

    The most beautiful man in the world is the actor Skandar Keynes (born 5th September 1991) who played Edmund Pevensie / King Edmund in the three “Chronicles of Narnia” films.  He is now studying Arabic and Middle-Eastern History at Cambridge University, and prefers to concentrate on being an intellectual first and an actor second.  He is a great-great-great-grandson of Charles Darwin.

  • old_labour

    He might improve with age. I will get back to you in 20 or 30 years time. Good that he is studying and taking it seriously.

  • http://www.croydonloony.co.uk JohnLoony

    Charles Darwin, Josiah Wedgwood and various others
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin%E2%80%93Wedgwood_family

  • old_labour

    I will read the link more closely later. Those who contribute to Wikipedia are admirable if they do not have a specific agenda and, instead, are more intersted in sharing their knowledge with the wider public.

  • http://www.croydonloony.co.uk JohnLoony

    In 20 or 30 years’ time, someone else is likely to have taken his place as officially the most gorgeous man in the world :)

  • old_labour

     Not for me. More of a “Kings Arms” type guy here.

  • Anonymous

    1.12 is a certainty. should be 1.03

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

     You’ve obviously not seen it.
    It’s precisely the same (inc price) as the Saturday Sun (50p: 11p to the newsagent).
    It has only the page count (92) in common with the NotW.

    It’s precisely what it says on the cover – the Sun on Sunday.

  • old_labour

    Both Sunday editions of the Sun and Mirror today had really dull front pages.

  • Anonymous

    Tim and Fitalass, Re runrig, The Cape Breton guy is rather good, an inspired choice after Donnie M was no more. I like the Stamping Ground as there is a fair bit in english and my gaelic is limited to about 100 words.

  • Anonymous

    JL, we all deteriorate over time; we are like an old riesling, increasingly on the nose, rather than an old merlot.

  • old_labour

    I enjoy getting older. Would rather be older than dead.

  • old_labour

    Listening to the World Service in the background. Some Welsh bloke has held on to his boxing title. Double sporting triumph for Wales. 

  • old_labour

    Have tried not to post links to the Scottish press as it annoys some folk, but this is an interesting article.

    KPMG last week took charge of three firms that are part of Edinburgh tycoon Malcolm Scott’s business empire.
    A
    spokesman for the Tory leader declined to comment, but party sources
    said the financial blows would mean Davidson’s wish to create new
    internal posts would have to be funded by London.

    Scott, whose fortune was made in the property and grain sectors, has donated around £1.6 million to the party in recent years.

    After the exit of Lord Laidlaw amid a “sex addiction” scandal,
    Scott’s mix of corporate and personal contributions made him the biggest
    donor to the Tories north of the Border.

    He also hosted intimate dinners for high-profile Conservatives and is
    a close friend of Foreign Secretary William Hague. But his generosity
    has dried up amid the deteriorating health of his firms. The Sunday
    Herald revealed in November that five of the large firms he owns or
    controls were late filing their accounts.

    On Thursday, administrators were appointed to take control of three
    property and investment firms in Scott’s Dunalastair group. One of the
    firms, BS 1001 Limited, was Scott’s holding company and lynchpin of his
    empire. It used to be called Dunalastair Philip Wilson Ltd and had a
    turnover of £34m in 2009. But the same year’s accounts noted a “material
    uncertainty” which “cast doubt on the group’s ability to continue as a
    going concern”. The firm lists Scott as its majority shareholder and
    trades from a leased property in Edinburgh’s Old Town.

    The second firm is Prestonpans (Trading) Limited, which owns the West
    Port Hostel in Edinburgh’s Grassmarket and a vacant property in the
    city’s North Street.

    BS 1003 Ltd, formerly known as Dunalastair Investments Limited, is
    also ailing. This firm owns property in Edinburgh’s plush Rutland Square
    and Rutland Street. Administrator Gary Fraser said: “These businesses
    have suffered as a result of the very challenging conditions following
    [the] downturn in the property sector. ” Other companies owned by Scott
    are not in administration.

    The move gives Davidson another financial headache as she tries to
    transform her struggling party. She was stung last month when Sir Jack
    Harvie announced he was quitting as party fundraiser. The construction
    tycoon had raised almost £16m since the 1980s for the Conservatives.

    Another donor, John McGlynn, has been critical of Davidson and has not signalled an intention to hand over any money.

    He last week proposed 10 “budget ideas” to Chancellor George Osborne
    to get the economy moving. These included giving small firms a tax
    “holiday” if they invest the saving in their business, as well as
    backing a 100% corporation tax on banks that fail to meet lending
    targets.

    He said: “What has Ruth Davidson suggested to the Chancellor? Does
    she have any ideas for the prosperity and health of Scotland?”

    SNP MSP John Wilson said: “It is clear [the Scottish Tories] will
    have to rely on financial support from Conservative Central Office in
    London. This brings into question the level of autonomy Ruth Davidson
    will have in the future decision making on Scottish issues.”

    Labour MSP John Park said: “This is pretty embarrassing stuff for the Scottish Tories.”Scott could not be reached.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/political-news/administrators-called-in-to-tory-donors-firms.1330225490

    inShare

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    Scottish Sun on Sunday front page says it ‘knows’ the date of the SR to be Sat 14th October 2014.
    Yeah, right………….

    Both papers’ editors were only told that the launch was today LAST Sunday. Thus, despite OGH’s header, it seems there were only 7 days from confirmed launch date to sale (6 to printing).

    Quite impressive! Full of ‘celebrity’ columns, written, no doubt, by ghost writers (is SeanT free?) and 45 ex 92 pages are sport – a tradition of the NotW, apparently.

    All I want to know is – who’s on p3 and is she fit? Strangely, the BBC are keeping schtum about that!

  • http://twitter.com/JamesKelly James Kelly

    Sounds about right.  To within a few weeks, at least.

  • Anonymous

    HD2, I am sure if anyone media person will be told it will be Murdoch, but I would suggest date is not set yet in stone.

  • Marquee Mark

    BS 1001 does sound a little too close to BS 1.01 to be comfortable…

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

     Well, my point was that I detest speculation or aspirations being stated unequivocally as ‘facts’.

    Much media talk yesterday of autumn 2013.  I have no wish to raise this topic, James, and get into a to-and-fro comment thread with you and Pork, but I mention that only because there appear to be two different opinions and the final decision has yet to be made. 

    I assume that will require some form of agreement over lots of secondary issues (wording, supervision etc) and that there will be meetings and debates between the interested parties.

    It’s a pity that such meetings and progress seem to be so leaky: it’s in the nature of such things that, ultimately, very little that’s decided is crucial, but both sides have ‘red lines’ which they will find hard to compromise on, and the best way to get agreement is for the people involved to meet without any media leaks goading their supporters on.

    At the end of the day, a question will be put, votes counted, and a result declared.  As long as it is clear-cut, no-one can (honestly) moan about the resulting effects.  A narrow result either way, or a very low turn-out, OTOH, will make things messy and lead to recriminations and bad feelings – nationwide.

    May I thank you once again for yesterday afternoon’s discourse (inquisition? lol!) and wondered what prompted it?  I just hope it did not bore too many others on here!

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

     Precisely!  It’s clear to which side of the mast (eh?) Murdoch has nailed his colours, but whether he will have any influence is dubious, at best.

    The SNPs ‘referendum, then negotiate’ way forward seems wrong to me, though (but I can the Unionist difficulties with this next proposal): the full terms of any settlement should be negotiated FIRST, then voters can decide on something fixed, not a pig in a poke.

    I assume, therefore, that after a Yes vote, and several years of protracted negotiations, then would then need to be a SECOND vote  (UK-wide) as to whether those terms were acceptable to everyone concerned.

    I cannot see anyone giving any Govt a mandate to agree to undefined terms for the break-up of our country: thus a Royal Commission would be used?  In which case, why not get it going now, with a view to reporting in time for the referendum and any consequential effects on the composition of the HoC in May 2015?

  • http://edmundintokyo.wordpress.com/ Edmund in Tokyo

    OT, what do we think about Santorum’s thing about Obama being a snob for wanting more people to go to college, which is a plot to indoctrinate them with liberalism?

    http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/rick-santorum-obama-wants-to-send-your-kids?ref=fpb

    There has to be a point somewhere where you can be too crazy even for the Republican base. Not sure where it is, though.

  • Marquee Mark

    Problem is, no-one knows where that point is. Seems to be that with this race, you chuck out bat-shit-crazy stuff until you are leading in the polls, when people actually look at what you are saying and go “but they’re bat-shit-crazy!” at which point you slide down the greasy poll and have to start climbing again. Or run out of cash.

    Kinda like an enormously complex and expensive version of “Mousetrap”…

  • Plato

    Morning – what a lovely morning

    YouGov STimes  tables are out http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/eqllmvsaav/YG-Archives-Pol-ST-results-24-260212.pdf

    The public approve by approx 2-1 in favour of compulsory unpaid work experience for long term unemployed and unpaid work placements for the rest – including half of Labour voters.

    Not the impression one would get from the media so far.

  • Marquee Mark

    Who do we consider will be the “winner” in the Michigan primary – the guywiththemost votes, or the guywiththemost delegates?

  • Anonymous

    So Amanda Holden really was the big Sun on Sunday story. From the looks of it, the paper is what it says it is on the front page: a brand extension rather than a Screws relaunch or a new-style publication. That makes sense from a business perspective, but it’s not really going to add to the gaiety of the nation. All in all, a bit of a damp squib; though young Toby has once again demonstrated what a fine fella he is.

  • Anonymous

    Also, big majorities in favour of a mansion tax, maintaining the 50 pence tax rate and scrapping the NHS reforms.

  • tim

    Support for the Health bill down from 18% to 14%.

    Quick Dave, call another summit.
    Lol

  • antifrank

    There is a common theme: the general public has decided that austerity is something for other people to pay for.

  • tim

    “That murdered girl thing” has gone viral.

    Although his column is the usual crap, this time blaming immigrants for any problems in the NHS it does make one strange claim.

    “Had Gordon Brown been re-elected, the NHS was in line for cuts of 20 per cent”

    Lies of course, but a lie made up on here by some of the thicker PB Tories, so which one is Toby?

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

     Tax what others have – taxing aspirations, therefore.
    Nuts.

    Besides which, normal house prices have a long way to fall yet – say 30-50% (as a multiple of average incomes, so stagnating for 5+ years would do the same thing)

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

     …but not one single one of those knows what’s involved, nor that most of it has already happened.
    Thus a failure of communication (all agree) rather than content (disputed) or implementation (so far so good, but a long way to go yet).
    Certainly by 2015, no-one will either notice or care (just as now)

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    No tim, as others have repeatedly told you, those cuts were real and planned, quantified and in their manifesto.
    But
    1.  No-one in Labour expected to be in Govt in June 2010
    2. The Soc Ser provision was due to rise by a similar sum, to cover a transfer of responsibilities and care for old folk – generally all agree that keeping and supporting them at home is better than in hospital.  The solution the Coalition is proposing (ID-S) is to give the person a sum of money and allow them to choose where to spend it, rather than have some minion in an office somewhere decide what’s needed, when, by whom, and how often.

    In short, Labour wanted to employ people, at taxpayer’s expense, to do what people are perfectly capable of doing for themselves – namely deciding what care and support they need, and employing someone to do it for them.

    Just like parenting – where Labour wants to employ people to do a mother’s job.  Badly.

    Bonkers.

    However, it IS disingenuous to only give the ‘NHS cuts’ part of the story – but that’s precisely what any politician, anywhere, would do.

  • Anonymous

    Several senior Labour Ministers discuussed the need to cut 20 billion from the NHS budget, before the election One of them was the Health Secretary and another was the Chancellor at the time, Darling 

  • Anonymous

    Just logged on and on thread – Romney needs to sack his campaign manager.  That video is toxic. 

    Perhaps too the conventional wisdom on the Arizona debate was wide of the mark.  This poll shows race tightening following the debate http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/25/gap-shrinking-between-romney-and-santorum-in-arizona/ 

    More value in laying Romney there on Betfair than backing Santo.  Perhaps OGH will clear up again as he did in Colorado.

  • http://tomknoxbooks.com SeanT

    Can pb-ers please ignore everything I say for the next ten hours as I am unbelievably drunk after a slightly riotous and penultimate nite in BKK.

    Thanks.