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PB NightHawks on the day on the day of RBS bonuses

January 28th, 2012


The big news today, of course, has been that the chairman of RBS, Sir Philip Hampton has given up a £1.4m shares bonus due next month.

This will probably end the row which has caused problems for both government and opposition.

Meanwhile it costs nothing to join tonight’s conversation in the PB NightHawks cafe.

Mike Smithson @MikeSmithsonOGH




  • http://www.youtube.com/ajs41#p/p Andy JS

    Adam Curtis’s blog is always worth taking a look at from time to time:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/

  • Anonymous

    “I want to commit to my partner but don’t want a quasi religious ceremony with sexist concepts of ownership floating around.”

    Henry McLeish, Murdo Fraser et al are probably thinking the same thing, now that Cameron has ruled out any fiscal autonomy for Scotland.

    http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/politics/no_further_tax_powers_for_scotland_says_david_cameron_1_2084365

  • tim

    Talk about tenous links, thats a crowbar, made in Scotland from girders.

    Let the nightshift begin.

  • Neil

    “Let the nightshift begin”

    The nightshift is no fun without Seth.

  • old_labour

    Government rules out including examining asbestos in school building inspections

    Campaigners reacted with fury last night as it emerged a year-long survey of England’s 23,000 schools will examine every aspect of buildings – from classroom decoration to whether fire alarms and toilets are in working order – but will specifically exclude asbestos, the most serious threat of all to staff and pupils.
    An internal Department for Education email, seen by The Independent on Sunday, makes it clear that pressure to include asbestos in the assessment of the state of schools, which begins in April and will be used to inform future funding, had to be resisted due to “cost implications and the fact that asbestos management should already be carried out under existing legal requirements”. The memo, dated September 2011, suggests that the survey programme “might well be able to provide some prompts and checks on that wider process, however”….

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/asbestos-new-blow-to-victims-of-a-shameful-legacy-6296347.html

  • tim

    They eat their young.

    “Four Sun journalists held over payments to police
    Arrests of existing and former senior staff are linked to information passed to Scotland Yard by employers News International”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/four-sun-journalists-held-over-payments-to-police-6296338.html

  • Anonymous

    Where is Seth?

  • Anonymous

    LOL

    Well I had to get an issue affecting the UK in here – otherwise you lot will spend your time discussing wee parochial issues like asbestos in English schools (we had it stripped out of mine in the 80s) and whether your GP in England is going to be running a hospital.

    It’s my moral duty to get you guys to look beyond your narrow nationalism. :-)

  • old_labour

    Parachute regiment being trained to contain and arrest rioters in the UK.

    Hundreds of soldiers from 3rd battalion The Parachute Regiment spent last week learning how to contain and arrest “rioters” in a series of exercises mirroring last summers violence.
    Defence sources have confirmed that if violence were to return to British cities, especially during the Olympic Games, the Paras would be “ideally placed” to provide “short-term” support to police forces around the UK.  
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9046668/UK-riots-paratroopers-are-trained-in-riot-control.html 

  • Neil

    I wish I knew, oldnat.

  • Neil

    “Parachute regiment being trained to contain and arrest rioters in the UK”

    Cause that worked so well in Derry?! (Note I am not saying the civil rights march was the same as a riot!)

  • Anonymous

    Nytol

  • Sunil Prasannan

    OTOH Operation Motorman went extremely smoothly:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Motorman

  • http://edmundintokyo.wordpress.com/ Edmund in Tokyo

    Good thing, too. You never know when these anarchists and hoodlums are going to start a riot while sky-diving, beyond the reach of terrestrial law enforcement.

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    Good.  Asbestos, left alone, is 100% safe.
    Only when disturbed by renovations or demolition is there any risk whatsoever.

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    Nonsense.  Marriage is for the creation and raising of children.
    Civil partnerships are a public recognition of a commitment; about ensuring the financial assets of the couple are treated as equally as those of a married couple.

    And so allow lawyers to make as much money out of them when they fail as they do out of failed marriages.

    One is about their genetic future: the other about their financial past.

    Both are about life-long commitment.

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    Share price is very far from the only measure of his success.
    Those who know more about business and a great deal more about banking than you, have posted that on here, together with what I thought were clear explanations as to why he’s worth £1 million if he increases the value of RBS by £1 billion…….
    Many, many times.

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    Thus there is no provision for by-elections for MEPs?  I had no idea that these were fiefdoms entirely within the power of the Party.

    NK anyone?

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    ‘Scots vote Labour for Westminster and SNP for Holyrood’ is OGH’s position on this.

    I disagree fundamentally – May 2011′s elections were a game-changer.

    Referendum win for SNP = whitewash for them in May 2015
    Referendum wipe-out = normal service is resumed
    Devomax is on the table in May 2015 = SNP whitewash.

    In both SNP ‘victory’ scenarios (entirely Pyrrhic, IMO), Scots would want the most powerful possible negotiating position vis a viz Westminster and only the SNP could grant that.

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    Their only hope is a Coupon election, but those within the Party claim ‘that’ll never happen’.

    We’ll see.  Would the Westminster elite prefer 100+ MPs …or 10?

    Power (prestige, money, expenses, Press attention) ALWAYS trumps principle!

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    Hampton’s handed his back too – entirely wrongly, IMO.

  • Sunil Prasannan

    So older people who are past child-bearing age cannot re-marry?

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    Sunil – legally they can do what they want – we live in a free country.

    I was paraphrasing the biblical/KJB marriage ceremony wording: Marriage is an institution created by God…. for mutual support….raising children…. creating an earthly manifestation of the love between God and humans.

    You know perfectly well what distinction I was trying to draw, Sunil!

    On a personal level, my children’s situation is a daily torture – not seeing your children grow up is an irreversible event and has been called ‘a living bereavement’, which seems apt, since I can have no ‘closure’ (a term I hate), probably ever.

    Meanwhile, I have only a past (and memories), and no future (and hope), which explains why I’m on here at silly o’clock having failed to sleep (yet again) – despite a productive and physical day in the garden on a wonderfully warm and sunny winter’s day.

  • Kristin

    Tampa Bay Times/Herald poll: Romney leads Fla by 11, crushing Gingrich among Hispanics and beating Obama

    http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/content/tampa-bay-timesherald-poll-romney-leads-fla-11-crushing-gingrich-among-hispanics-and-beating 

    Quiet on here isn’t it ?   :)   

  • Anonymous

    Personally I have no problem in this million pound bonud if he has earned it!    Whether he has earned it I don’t know but certainly I would not want to make an assesment on the share price alone.

    Presumably David Cameron thinks he has earned it as the major shareholder so fair enough

  • http://twitter.com/JamesKelly James Kelly

    Don’t know if it’s been mentioned yet, but a rather sensational poll on independence in the Sunday Express -

    “A CLEAR majority of people in Scotland now back independence, according to an exclusive poll for the Sunday Express.In the first such result since the SNP came to power – and using Alex Salmond’s preferred referendum question – the Vision Critical survey found 51 per cent would vote ‘Yes’, with 39 per cent against.

    If such a dramatic result were repeated in the autumn of 2014, the First Minister would have an absolute mandate to negotiate an end to the Union with England.”

    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/298664/Poll-Now-51-back-independence 

    But doubtless the bulk of the London media will still find a way of ignoring this (and the ICM poll) to tell us that “polls show no appetite for independence”…

  • http://twitter.com/JamesKelly James Kelly

    “You know perfectly well what distinction I was trying to draw, Sunil!”

    You were trying to draw a distinction between heterosexual and gay couples, and use the potential for child-rearing as an excuse.  Unfortunately, that doesn’t work, because many heterosexual couples have no more potential for child-rearing than gay couples do.

    Next excuse?

  • Anonymous

    Hester even better at his job than we thought (cracking pic by the way, worthy of any Trot class-war pamphlet):

    http://tinyurl.com/7h5py6f

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    With such a blatantly loaded question, even the Queen might give it a second thought!

    But that, we can be CERTAIN, will NOT be the question which is actually asked, so the poll proves only that a biased question can produce a given answer.

    The next 12 months are going to be full of GB and Jubilee celebrations, in which the word’ Scotland’ will associated, like the England cricket team today (and soccer team for 47 years) with the word ‘failure’.

    Again.

  • Anonymous

    Yes James, very encouraging, though it’s the usual sub sample. Since the posh lads showed Salmond their big stick, SNP membership up 8%, price at Hills for Independence by 2020 down from 9/1 to 7/1, and available polling evidence showing steady increase of support for independence.

    Playing a blinder indeed.

  • http://twitter.com/JamesKelly James Kelly

    “With such a blatantly loaded question”

    How exactly is it “loaded”, HD2?  I see John Curtice arguing that it should be “should Scotland become an independent country?”, but when I suggested PRECISELY those words the other day, someone jumped on me and said that would be “misleading”.  We can’t win!  

    The proposed question is simple, direct, unambiguous, easy to understand, and neutrally-worded.

    “But that, we can be CERTAIN, will NOT be the question which is actually asked”

    Are you channelling Richard “My Word Is Law” Nabavi?  The political editor of BBC Scotland, Brian Taylor, said he thought that had a fair chance of being the question.

    “The next 12 months are going to be full of GB and Jubilee celebrations”

    The week before the last Scottish Parliament elections were dominated by Royal Wedding celebrations.  That, of course, successfully headed off a historic SNP landslide.  I take your point, HD2.

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    ‘Many heterosexual couples’?

    Utter rot.
    James – you’re back on ‘ignore’ as I’ve nothing useful to learn from you.

    Marriage is celebrating the future potential of the couple; civil partnerships (which I whole-heartedly support for those born with those genes) are to secure financial equality and tax and Will equality too.

    Thus one is Biblical and celebrates genetic potential: the other is born of Mamon and is concerned purely with £££.

    Note: Both are private and public celebrations too, of course, and the distinction I draw is purely in connection with Society’s view of why such contracts are needed.

    Why should lawyers be denied the possibility of earning as large a fortune from the breakdown of a civil partnership as they can currently earn from a marriage breakdown?

    Bliar and Cherie are both lawyers, remember!

    [My divorce - 2 teachers - cost £300k.  Don't tell me that makes any sense in any known Universe]

  • http://twitter.com/JamesKelly James Kelly

    “Marriage is celebrating the future potential of the couple”

    “Potential” (for child-rearing) that simply does not exist in the case of many heterosexual couples.   That was the point Sunil made, and ignoring it won’t make it go away.

  • http://twitter.com/JamesKelly James Kelly

    “though it’s the usual sub sample.”

    I know, although they do make the point that it’s properly weighted, so it has somewhat more credibility than a normal subsample.  According to the ComRes calculator, the margin of error is approximately 7%.

  • Anonymous

    When it comes to Soccer, Scotland does not need to borrow failure from England. They have had their own failure factory for longer than 47 years, the difference being that no-one expects them to do better.

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    The way these islands’ soccer elite have treated the Olympic ‘Team GB’ team says it all.

    Shabby in the extreme.

    An Olympic medal would matter more to the players than any European Gold medal – and the chances of England reaching even the semis must be slim, let alone the other GB soccer teams, who IIRC, (I don’t follow soccer at all) have not even made the finals.

    As usual.

  • http://twitter.com/JamesKelly James Kelly

    “An Olympic medal would matter more to the players than any European Gold medal”

    I doubt if there’s a footballer anywhere in Europe who wouldn’t give the European Championships at least ten times the importance of the rather peculiar under-23 event at the Olympics.  Can anyone even name the reigning Olympic champions (without checking Wikipedia, I mean)?

  • Anonymous

    ‘other GB soccer teams, who IIRC, (I don’t follow soccer at all) have not even made the finals.’

    Eh?!

  • Anonymous

    The conditions for the payment of the bonus were negotiated by the previous Government.  Presumably, the contract is binding in Law, and like the ridiculous terms of the renewable energy contracts and the unwanted Carriers, cannot be broken unilaterally without penalty.  I would point out that it is usual for share bonuses not to be exercisable for a number of years after the award, and that nowadays the markets take into account the number of such shares on the register. when striking a price for the enterprise.  Thus the immediate effect of the award will be to dilute the share price, and to benefit from the bonus Mr Hester will have had to increased the value of RBS in several year’s time.  When you consider the enormous sums involved, paying a top man a few millions to recover several hundred billions to the public exchequer, a bonus he can only collect if he is successful, is a good deal for the taxpayer.
    Questions about the morality of the award should be addressed to the Sage of Kirkcaldy, who was, as least nominally, in charge of the Government when the contracts of employment of the RBS board were drawn up and agreed.

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    I *think* Scotland made the 1970/74 World Cup finals – but nothing since.

    I *think* Scotland have never made it out of the group stages of the European equivalent.

    Frankly, I really, really, don’t care one way of the other.  England’s 1966 victory was not because they were the best team, but because they were the fittest and were playing at home under an inspirational captain and manager.

    None of those will ever occur together again, whilst on talent, skills and management, we’re not even in the top 10.

    England’s Rugby XV, in 2004 WERE the best team, AND the best managed, and so worthy winners.

    Management failures prevented them repeating that feat in 2008, whilst in 2011 the entire edifice collapsed – the basic underpinnings and management are woefully behind those of the leading Southern Hemisphere nations.

    It appears that too much £££ has affected too many in the ‘elite’.

  • http://twitter.com/JamesKelly James Kelly

    “I *think* Scotland made the 1970/74 World Cup finals – but nothing since.”

    Completely wrong.  Here are the World Cups that Scotland has qualified for : 1950, 1954, 1958, 1974, 1978, 1982, 1986, 1990, 1998.

    Note : Although Scotland qualified in 1950, the SFA pulled out on the rather quaint grounds that only England should “represent the UK”!

  • http://www.biologymad.com/ HD2

    I saw yesterday the price for solar power currently paid to those with those ugly, badly-sited panels on their roofs.

    48.8p/unit!!!!!

    That’s nearly 3x what I pay – and ignores all transmission and other losses – as well as profits for the power company.

    Can we please make it a law that each and every supplier of energy to the national Grid is paid EXACTLY the same per kw/hr?

    A level playing-field, in fact.

  • Anonymous

    @TelePolitics: A-ha! Can Steve Coogan save Ed Miliband? http://t.co/UlxkYxJk

  • slade

    Rebecca Taylor comes from a well known Liberal family. Her father is Michael Taylor who is a long standing Liberal/Liberal Democrat in Calderdale and her mother is Elisabeth Wilson who fought Colne Valley in 2005 and Halifax in 2010. Her grandparents were honoured a couple of years ago for long service to the party.