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Friday night and time for the PB NightHawks to gather

January 27th, 2012

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This is, of course, PB’s regular overnight open thread where all things political are discussed.

Welcome to the cafe – have a good evening.

Mike Smithson @MikeSmithsonOGH
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  • Anonymous

    ‘
    The currency issue alone is a prime example of this.’

    The greater the scrutiny the less viable the whole adventure looks and its only been in the spotlight for a couple of weeks.

    At least by 2014 there will be a clear ruling by the EU,whether an independent Scotland can continue in the EU or has to re-apply for membership.

    No wonder Salmond is already working on plan B, Devomax. 

  • Anonymous

    I liked the tail of that story “The church was last night unavailable for comment”!

  • Anonymous

    I live in Scotland, and its been wall to wall Salmond pontificating on this issue over the last week. Not Cameron, Not Osborne, Not the Libdems. Just Salmond raging against the machine and sounding more and more like a cybernat in the process. Guess what, its creating a negative backlash against him and his party.

  • Anonymous

    Well, we don’t need to have our view of Scotland’s future defined by your concept of what independence is.

    Presumably you don’t see Finland as being an independent country. I do.

  • Anonymous

    That would be the hilariously inept intervention that’s flushed out Salmond’s loaded question and pushed the currency issue out into the open. Yes, a disaster for the Unionists all round…..

  • Kristin

    LOL, I bet their viewing figures go up :D  

  • Anonymous

    On your own showing the Poundzone is in deep crisis too. 

    If you stayed with your original intention to join the Euro, Scotland could lead the whole of Europe to the sunlit uplands, leaving the rest of the UK to join or not as seemed best to them. 

  • Anonymous

    I’m not sure what your concept of independence is! Which of the UK’s former colonies long term retained the £ after independence? And the Finns replaced the Roubke with the Markka for 142 years before joining the Euro…..so your analogy escapes me….why not your own currency?

  • MickP0rk

    “Just Salmond raging against the machine and sounding more and more like a cybernat in the process. Guess what, its creating a negative backlash against him and his party.”

    And as we’ve already established just because it’s in your head doesn’t make it true.

    If it were SCON would have won a landslide not the SNP.
    Instead they had their worst election result ever.

    I saw no huge scottish negative backlash on the BBC referendum discussion programme. I did however see Lamont and Wallace doing the marvellous job we always knew they would. :-)

  • Anonymous

    “Salmond’s loaded question”

    Like the UK Government’s “loaded question” in the Welsh referendum perhaps? Which the Electoral Commission criticised?

    As to the question ultimately to be asked – the consultation paper is quite clear -

    “1.10 A proposed ballot paper is set out below for comment. It has been designed to comply with the Electoral Commission’s guidelines which state that referendum questions should present the options clearly, simply and neutrally. In line with a recommendation of the Gould Report into the problems experienced by the Scottish elections in 2007 the design of the referendum ballot paper will be subject to testing using a sample of voters. The Scottish Government will also seek advice on this and other aspects of the referendum from electoral professionals (returning officers and registration officers) through the Electoral Management Board for Scotland, from the Electoral Commission and from a panel of independent expert advisers.”

  • Kristin

    I misse dthis yesterday ..

    “Alex Salmond today claimed a British Chancellor would be “biting our hands off” for an independent Scotland to keep the pound as its currency. ”

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/chancellor_would_welcome_post_independence_currency_union_alex_salmond_1_2079916 
    :D lol

  • http://twitter.com/mrnonnymouse NonnyMouse

    Here is a plain English translation of the Greek surrender document from Germany and the EU. http://bit.ly/wwvBMt

    I can’t see the Greek army letting their Vichy government hand the country over to a German run EU.

    I wonder who has the biggest army? Greece or Germany?

    I know that Greece has been buying up American tanks (with German money).

  • Anonymous

    I am not planning to invest in shares in the SNP’s polling figures for the short to medium term…….But its been great to see the way its fired some passion back into the political scene up here among the SNP’s opponents.

    And on that note, nite all. An early start and the sidelines of a rugby pitch beckon, now where the hell did I put those long johns and woolie mitts. Brrrr, if it gets any colder the pitch might just be too frozen. :D

  • Anonymous

    Of course Scotland can use Sterling, the US dollar, the euro or brass buttons without asking anyone for permission but why would a modern and prosperous nation not want the ability to control their own money? 

    I wouldn’t think there would be any lost votes in the SNP floating the idea of a Scottish Pound. At least that way you’d still print your own banknotes.

    You’re not a minor island nation without an economy to back up its own currency. I see no reason why a Scottish Pound would not be viable.

  • MickP0rk

    Cameron made himself the face of the unionist cause and he’s not exactly Mr popular in scotland in case you still don’t get it.

    Meanwhile Salmond’s still following his own timetable. It’s 2014 like it always was and the question on Burns night like he wanted to.

    Even that produced comedy gold from Cameron with his hilarious attempt to recite Burns.

    And the STUC civic scotland campaign for Devomax is going ahead as was always planned. I’m afraid the poor old scottish lib dems and SLAB are going to find themselves in quite a pickle over that since they support Devomax/Home Rule but are currently trying to keep it off the ballot. They may just change their minds. ;^)

  • Anonymous

    Goodnight, all.

  • Anonymous

    By your logic (if I can dignify it with that term) Finland is not an independent country any more.

    If rUK play silly b’s and decide that the present currency union that they want to retain is suddenly a bad idea, then our own currency remains an option.

    That’s the good thing about regaining sovereignty. You can make sensible arrangements with willing partners for mutually advantageous arrangements. If rUK wants to go off in a huff …..

  • MickP0rk

    “.But its been great to see the way its fired some passion back into the political scene up here among the SNP’s opponents.”

    Oh it’s fired up passion all right.
    Which has mostly been channeled into the always predictable SLAB labour infighting since they don’t have a clue what to do about the WLQ and Devomax but have stated a turf war over Lamont and labour about who gets to be the big cheese.

    The lib dems still haven’t figured out that they are honourary tories but they will get a rather unpleasant reminder in May.

  • Anonymous

    “clearly, simply, neutrally”

    So you’ll be dropping the “you agree with” then?

  • RodCrosby

    Obama fanatic threatens to kill Arpaio…

    http://www.azfamily.com/news/MCSO-Obama-fanatic-threatens-to-kill-Arpaio-138229079.html

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/sheriff-joe-arpaio-tasks-cold-case-posse-to-investigate-obamas-birth-certificate/2011/09/20/gIQAkrZHiK_blog.html

    “I will not be intimated against pursuing this investigation into
    Obama’s eligibility to serve as the president of the United States,”
    Arpaio said.

  • Anonymous

    “I see no reason why a Scottish Pound would not be viable.”

    Nor do I. But at the moment, when financiers are seeking profit by destabilizing currencies, it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to create an opportunity for them to attack sterling. rUK is currently our biggest export market, so why would we want to see their economy damaged by the profiteers?

  • Anonymous

    Truly embarrassing test match going on

    Zimbabwe bowled out for 51 and are now 3/2.

  • MickP0rk

    The importance of gradualism is sometimes lost in the current sudden frenzy of rehashed “too wee, too poor and too stupid” by the herd on here blissfully unaware that we’ve heard it all before.

  • Anonymous

    We’ll need to see what the research says. However, in 1997 the UK Parliament legislated that the main referendum question would be “I agree [or I do not agree] that there should be a Scottish Parliament”.

    In a democratic society, the Government makes a proposal. That proposal is consulted upon, and experts are invited to comment. In this particular case, the actual question will be field tested to find out if the question is neutral. The question may be varied in its final wording.

    What’s your problem with that?

  • old_labour

    Longish article speculating about Lab/SNP chances in the Glasgow council elections

    IS Glasgow about to do the unthinkable… and vote Labour out of office at the City Council? With the May elections fast approaching, Stephen McGinty canvasses opinion on whether there really is an appetite for change and sets the scene for the political battle ahead….

    http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/the-arts/arts-blog/after_31_years_will_labour_finally_lose_their_grip_on_glasgow_1_2082565

  • Anonymous

    I know! I’ve been hearing these unionist arguments for the last 50 years. However, to those outwith Scotland they are new, since they largely ignored Scotland before – so we have to go through the whole boring process of deconstructing the errors yet again.

  • old_labour

    Poor Michael Moore

    Scottish Secretary Michael Moore has been forced to postpone a key meeting with Alex Salmond about the independence referendum after falling victim to chickenpox.

    A spokesman said the Liberal Democrat Cabinet minister would spend several days at home recovering from the highly contagious illness…

    http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/uk/chickenpox_forces_moore_to_call_off_his_talks_with_first_minister_1_2083443

  • Anonymous

    I’m not the one having a problem seeing that Salmond’s proposed question was loaded:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9043780/Alex-Salmonds-question-over-independence-gives-poll-boost-to-Scottish-leader.html

    And the sovereign state of Finland voluntarily entered a currency union when it gave up its independent currency – so I’m not the one with logic problems either! When the Finns gained independence from Russia they gave up the Rouble. But when the Scots gain independence from rUK they want to keep the £.

  • Anonymous

    “question on Burns Night, like he always wanted”

    25th January? What’ll that do for turnout?

  • old_labour

    Devomax row seems to be escalating

    THE leaders of a civic Scotland campaign to give greater powers to Holyrood have been warned they must remain politically neutral, amid fears Alex Salmond is leaning on them to back a second referendum question.

    When he unveiled his referendum consultation, the First Minister said he would go for a ballot with both an independence and “devo-max” option – if there was enough support for the latter from “civic” Scotland.
    Within days, a consortium describing itself as civic Scotland and made up of trade unionists, church leaders and the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations (SCVO) said it was to launch a campaign to examine the issue of constitutional change.

    Unionists, who believe the referendum should be restricted to a single question on independence, suspect the SNP is exerting influence on civic Scotland to persuade it to back devo-max….

    http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/politics/fears_over_pressure_on_civic_scotland_to_back_devo_max_1_2083440

  • MickP0rk

    Announced as you well know. ;^)

  • old_labour

    It looks like someone has taken SeanT’s advice!

    AT AN age when most teenage boys are sleeping or trying to impress girls, John West was elected Scotland’s youngest councillor. By the age of 18, he was deputy provost of Aberdeen and set for a life dedicated to politics.

    But now Mr West, 23, is finally doing something more age- appropriate – he has quit the day job to go backpacking around the world.
    The bagpipe-playing law undergraduate has announced that he will stand down from his council seat at the local elections in May.

    Mr West, a Nationalist politician who now sports a beard and has emerged as one of the key members of the joint SNP and Lib Dem administration running Aberdeen City Council, said: “I simply want to do something else for a while, and I am going to do a bit of travelling, see the world and take in some new experiences.” He says Australia will be his first port of call….

    http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/politics/youngest_ever_politician_retires_to_go_backpacking_at_age_of_23_1_2083448

  • Anonymous

    “Meanwhile, it has been suggested Prime Minister David Cameron believes the whole UK should be given a say if devo-max is included in the referendum, as any change in, say, Scotland’s rate of corporation tax would impact on the rest of the country.”

    And why not? We’re all believers in democracy, aren’t we?

  • old_labour

    I believe Mr Cameron’s supporters are still waiting on a referendum concerning the EU.

  • Anonymous

    Jings! Crivvens! Help ma Boab!

    Whatever question was originally proposed will be subject to criticism by some. That’s why the Scottish Government has made a proposal, but which they say has to be field tested. Don’t you understand any of the mechanics of deciding the final format of the question(s)?

    The sovereign state of Scotland would also voluntarily enter a currency union with rUK, if agreement can be reached. You seem to imagine that rejecting the rUK currency would somehow be a mark of sovereignty, but entering a currency union with rUK somehow wouldn’t be.

    Strange thinking.

  • MickP0rk

    “Unionists, who believe the referendum should be restricted to a single question on independence, suspect the SNP is exerting influence on civic Scotland”

    Come on. That’s desperate.

    They knew perfectly well civic scotland and the likes of the STUC broadly supported Devomax. In fact they were and are counting on it for their plans in the future. You won’t get total uniform opinion on all the details from such a large grouping but that’s why it’s a consultation.

    This is blind panic from SLAB and the scottish lib dems because they know perfectly well how they would look opposing Devomax  but somehow still trying to support it.

    Nice link old_labour. :-)
    Things are indeed hotting up.

  • Anonymous

    You really don’t understand the timetable either. Poor you.

  • old_labour

    A QC questions Tommy Sheridan being forbidden to speak to the press after being released on parole

    The Tommy Sheridan case was always fairly unusual, but once this sort of condition is imposed it sets a dangerous precedent. One thing that would be particularly worrying is if someone challenging a conviction, who was released from prison, was to be told that they couldn’t speak about it. That would have very serious implications for justice in Scotland, which is one of the reasons why this restriction imposed on Mr Sheridan is so worrying.

    It’s a condition that I have never heard of before in any cases in Scotland….

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/cartoon/analysis_if_this_were_done_in_another_country_we_would_be_outraged_1_2083447

  • Anonymous

    Nytol

  • MickP0rk

    Night oldnat.

  • MickP0rk

    Saw that earlier. Utterly bizarre.

    That won’t be the end of the matter either.

  • Anonymous

    So why not propose a neutral one in the first place? The uncharitable might think wee Eck a bit slippery….

    Meanwhile, from my neck of the woods:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16698879

    Guernsey pounds are not legal tender and are not accepted in the UK…..

  • old_labour

    I read that the Leveson enquiry finishes on April 19th.

  • RodCrosby
  • MrJones

    ex-unionist. sick of nats now. english vote. full independence. big wall. **** off.

  • Anonymous

    Pakistan must now be favourites to win the test match. England are very poor against quality spin. It would be a huge effort to chase down 100 plus against Ajmal and co on a turning wicket.

  • Anonymous

    apparently there isn’t one..

  • Anonymous

    .@MichaelDugherMP .@ChukaUmunna Serious Q – how does your bank bonus tax work without bank bonuses?

  • Plato

    I can see your post being pretty popular :^)

  • Anonymous

    Oil is a declining asset. Besides they are drilling off the South Coast at the moment.

    Distilleries? I am assuming that was tongue in cheek ;-) .

  • Anonymous

    There is a dreadful amount of anti english rhetoric in Scotland, from the top downwards. It starts with Salmond and works from there.

  • Anonymous

    Utterly patronising.

  • MickP0rk

    Yes, we see that on here all the time with Mr Jones adding his helpful and measured words of wisdom to the debate. :-)

  • Anonymous

    I listen to a different drumbeat altogether, tim; but since it’ll never make money for anyone, it’s of no consequence whether anyone else hears it or not.

    Sorry for the late reply.

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