It was important as it stopped Labour establishing a Soviet-style state.

Further proposals for nationalisation in all areas of the economy would have seen us like East Germany. Indeed, laid a model for Walter Ulbricht to emulate.

Boris is right.

The people of europe need to be a right to decide wether they want a poltically and economically integrated europe run primarly from Germany.

I expect they don’t.

I’d consider myself pretty greeny on the recycling scale of stuff – I had my first wormery in 1995.

My neighbours have just erected No signs to a local windfarm and I’ve signed the petition. I have no objection to mass farms on Californian mountain-sides that are miles from anywhere, but next to my home? And are crap at gathering power?

I’d like to see the BBC2 OU progs from the early 70s re tidal power get a re-run. I think I knew more about renewable energy in about 1974, than I’ve ever learned from the MSM.

“Had Atlee won again, rationing would have remained – indefinitely – and we would have lost then, those freedoms we retained until 1997-2010”

Eh?

I think you have suspended your critical faculties.

How different in terms of ideology is Blair from Cameron?

EdM needs to get a grip on Chuka. This sort of abuse just makes the leader look weak.

I’ve yet to see Chuka do anything that I rate. Yes he might be good looking but he’s not that good when it comes to articulating a compelling case. He’s also got poor diction.

Grossly over-promoted.

Like Churchill, in fact.

But not like Wilson, McMillan, Callaghan, Home, Eden.

I wonder why not?

Re PB – sometimes a link appears above the comments which allows us to ‘Like A Thread’ > link to Facebook/Twitter.

Any reason why this isn’t a default option? It seems daft that the PB twitter community don’t have an easy way to spread the word for threads of particular interest or value… I often retweet a Mr Smithson link if I spot it on twitter, but since I get maybe 1000 a day…and only follow about 300 who are almost all journalists/columnists.

Oi!

My grandpa was more than happy to tell her bluntly when he thought she was speaking cr*p or rough-riding over legitimate concerns of other Cabinet members. I guess he could get away with it as he had no remaining desire to have her job & didn’t really care if she sacked him.

Socrates is right. The French want Britain sidelined in the EU, as they have done since we joined (after they vetoed our membership for a decade).

They see the new hardcore EU as a way of doing this, they reckon it will be run by Paris/Berlin and the core will be able to outvote us every time; the Germans are beyond caring, they are too scared of having to bale out the tiddlers, they want us to share the burden before we will be allowed a say.

The crunchpoint looms when we will either have to join their gang and hope for more influence, or we will depart entirely. I cannot see anyway around this logic, unless the euro and the EU totally fall apart rather than crumble at the edges (most unlikely).

Given that the price of joining the eurogang will be joining the euro, and allowing Brussels to run our budgets, there is zero to minimal chance the Brits will vote yes to Federalism (unless we are bankrupt).

So we will leave. Eventually. Some of the smarter British europhiles (see columns in the Guardian and FT recently) have realised this, and are in quiet despair.

Here’s one arch Federalist bitterly predicting our departure, and, predictably, saying we will end up screwed because of it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/27/britain-leave-european-union

Hurst. describes him to a tee.

Here’s another one. Even Andrew “the English must be defeated” Duff, Lib Dem MEP for Treachery Central, believes we are on the exit ramp.

http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/imported/the-uk-heads-slowly-for-the-exit/72432.aspx

I think there’s something of a difference between scientific judgment and views on a political position. On something like, say, evolution via natural selection, I think it’s fair to judge what’s “extreme” if it’s on the extremenities of scientific opinion rather than public opinion.

But this is a debate everyone has already decided their position on and the same arguments get brought up every time on both sides. Whereas the European situation is a dynamic and changing situation, so that’s much more interesting to discuss.

I have to disagree on the good-looking stakes. He’s a bit more attractive than plain ordinary, with nothing about him bar a big ego.

His PR is totally out of kilter with reality.

If Chuka is the answer – who on Earth posed the question?

He talks about “the hapless British public” and “Britain’s feeble constitution”. What an odious man this Andrew Duff is. Clearly, he would be voted out of office in an instant if he ever had to stand as an individual up for election. But he gets in again and again because the party machine has put him high up the perverted EU party-list system, even when the Lib Dems get hammered.

I hope every constituent of his in the East of England that reads about his views of the British people and our ancient constitution will make their views known to him.

For my fellow geeks:

Just got back from doing London Cannon Street to Charing Cross using the normally non-passenger direct connection via Metropolitan Junction (which lies between London Bridge and Waterloo East). No direct trains from London Bridge to Charing Cross today.

The Lib Dems only managed 13.8% from the “hapless British public” in the Eastern Region last time. But, being first on the list, that surpassed the 12.5% needed for Duff to get in. The Liberal Democrats will hopefully get pasted at the next ones, which should be able to turf him out of office.

Hopefully, that will be enough to end his political career. I doubt he could get into parliament, where candidates need to stand on their individual merits under “Britain’s feeble constitution”.

And here is Mister “Defeat the English” Duff.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/Andrew_Duff.jpg/150px-Andrew_Duff.jpg

And here is his better looking brother.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2756/4405317952_6402ea0204.jpg

“In March 2011, Duff wrote to president Jerzy Buzek with a plan to circumvent the Referendum lock proposed by the coalition government, by changing existing treaties so that any new treaties no longer require ratification by all member states, but instead four fifths. Under these proposals, even if Britain voted against a new EU treaty the plebiscite could be ignored.”

This is a good way of improving the look of all brutalist buildings in the UK:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15806553

Chuka Umunna’s prominence come solely from people looking for a ‘British Obama’.

They then spot someone with a similar type of name to Obama, who also looks somewhat like Obama and even has a similar background to Obama.

They then declare him to be the ‘British Obama’ and predict he’ll be the first non-white PM.

Chuka doesn’t actually have to do anything apart from exist to be praised to the skies.

Anyone watching Al Jaz English?

More violence in Cairo. The Egyptian TV channels here in Luxor are also broadcasting it live.

It’s nice that I am actually scheduled to be in Cairo around the day of the election. Should be “lively”.

Toggle between “newest first” and “oldest first” in the little box at the top of the thread.

That’s a lol moment.

Re your first sentence, you could easily replace Obama with Cameron and GOP with Labour.

Matt Yglesias points out the monetary policy on the ECB’s website encourages recession over mild inflation:

http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/11/18/372102/economia-the-game-of-terrible-monetary-policy-lessons/

If we’re going to talk about Labour MP’s and Obama, we really shouldn’t forget this.

My staff wrote ‘Barack Obama tribute’, junior minister Dawn Butler admits

Dawn Butler, a Labour MP and Government whip, has admitted that her staff wrote a tribute to her supposedly written by Barack Obama.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/4321614/My-staff-wrote-Barack-Obama-tribute-junior-minister-Dawn-Butler-admits.html

PS That said, Obama has been a severe disappointment, even in the areas where one thought he was best placed to succeed.

Israel is the prime example. He came in as Barack the black and slightly Muslim Obama, a man who might, at last, treat with Jerusalem in a more mature and objective way, and maybe kick Middle Eastern peace into gear

Instead he’s ended up grovelling to the Jewish lobby like every other US president, to the detriment of Middle Eastern peace, American strategic interests, and even Israel’s long term future. A tragic failure.

Yes, Al Jazeera English are rather glibly (and naively) presenting this as a liberal-activist rally in Tahrir – with lots of nice middle class Cairene bloggers bravely taking on the hated military.

All the written analysis I have read says this latest trouble is definitely Islamist in its core, with the Brotherhood bussing people in – as you say. The Brothers want the military cowed so they can steer the revolution towards Salafism.

That puts a very different gloss on it. This is a fearful moment for Egypt.

My driver today (the same guy as yesterday said “I am free!”) told me he wants the soldiers to clear the mob away – with bullets if necessary. He’s Muslim, but he’s afraid of the Islamists taking over. So are many Egyptians.

All very messy.

Not much time to comment but….

1 Little White Bull and Mud, mud, glorious mud are very unlikely to have been on the same single. The former was Tommy Steele. The latter was Flanders & Swan. No comparison. If Sunil is not familiar with it, he should look up Flanders & Swan’s The Slow Train.
2 I will not be going to see any films about Margaret Thatcher. Also, catching up on previous threads, she should not get a state funeral. Churchill didn’t get one for being PM he got it because he led the country during the Second World War. No-one should get one for winning elections. She has enough money to pay for her own, and those people who want to line the streets can do so. Those rightwingers on here who think she should have a state funeral should remember that if she gets one, then Labour would be entirely justified in demanding one for Blair.
3 I think Ed B is more toxic than Ed M for Labour. They can’t both go, because Yvette appears to be the only Labour politician anyone rates at the moment, and she can’t do both jobs. So I reckon Ed M is safe for the moment.

The Slow Train was written after the Beeching cuts I think. It’s here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6OHD2uCpfU

worth 3 mins of any train enthusiast’s time. Soppy thing that I am, it makes me well up.

Al Jaz still protraying the Tahrir Square crowd as nice liberal democratic activists, even as the TV images show thousands of them kneeling down to pray simultaneously.

Talking of false tributes I see as I suspected this is a Timbot free zone today. As it is all about leadership ratings we are constantly told I am surprised at only a single post despite posting constantly all day everyday. Mind you the Timbot did once post this …………

tim 08/25/2011 07:59 AM
“It’s the relative leader ratings that count, as Dave/Gordon showed in the election run up.”

Ed’s a dud, even Labour Know it.

“Just got back from doing London Cannon Street to Charing Cross using the normally non-passenger direct connection via Metropolitan Junction (which lies between London Bridge and Waterloo East).”

Back after an excellent lunch and some, frankly tedious, washing up. I go to check up on what has been happening on the thread whilst I have been away and just about the first post I find is the above from Mr. Prasannan.

Bless you, my boy, just knowing you are out there indulging in such antics restores my faith and makes the pile of ironing I now face seem far less formidable.

I see the thread has brought up Flanders and Swann as well as containing lots of views on Europe. Before I dash of to the ironing may I offer you this; from 1963 in New York a song calculated to offend practically everybody

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vh-wEXvdW8

It must be unusual that not only do the three leaders have quite similar educational backgrounds etc but are very close in age (less than 4 years apart) and from the middle distance look remarkably similar being all somewhat over 6 foot tall, dark haired and reasonably slim. Oddly this may act to Ed M’s disadvantage when it comes to this kind of polling.

Yvette would certainly be a true contrast but I am not so much in her fan club as others. She does rather lack a popular touch and maybe unfairly comes across as humourless and rather intense. She is also married to Balls. I’d give Ed M a bit more time, even as a non-supporter I have never bought the red Ed nonsense. The party polling is ok , he has had some victories over Cammo and he has thought outside the box at trimes. At this stage what more can you ask for?

A pleasure, Mr. Llama! You may be please I still have yet to Uckfield. I have a few destinations further out to do (about 50 miles from London), like Polegate and Newhaven among others, and then as the nights draw in, hope to do the shorter routes and branch lines.

Also there’s this cross-country route completely by-passing London: Reading to Redhill, Redhill to Tonbridge, Tonbridge to Strood.

Some great photos in that Youtube, including a really ancient-looking LNWR electric train with Altrincham on the front!

Balls was on Sky this morning and was at his wittering direst, and talking eponymously.

Anybody else..the man has failure stamped all over him..Yvette will never become PM..EVER..Labour have to start the search right now and it does not involve looking along the front bench

The Hippopotamus Song by Flanders and Swan has finally arrived on PB – will Stephanie be proud?

- it’s on my iPod: I have all their albums from an amazon.co.uk clearance sale

You mean that Salmond is not telling us all when there will be a referendum and what the question will be when well into his second term shows he is determined and implacable?

“Cameron is as Nicholas Soames once said (of someone else), “The man has no bottom”, and Soames should know.”

Soames knows that is true about Cameron because he said that about someone else and not Cameron?

Interessssssting.

I’m sure there used to be a train from Birmingham International to Gatwick Airport because I remember standing on the platform at Birm. Int. about 5 years ago and seeing a train with “Gatwick Airport” on the front of it and thinking that would be a very useful train to go on some time. But sadly it doesn’t seem to exist anymore. I wonder why they stopped that service?

POTWAS.

“It’s knowing you’re foreign that’s driving you mad”!

I love Flanders & Swann.

One from the past – that made me titter. ‘Sixteen stone of pure man.’ Could be…

As this seems to be today’s official ed-is-crap thread, I must share the item for sale I came across by chance on Amazon: described as (and I kid you not) The David Miliband Cotton Toilet Seat Cover. But when you look at the item, the picture on the seat cover is actually Ed. I guess that general recognition over his brother remains the problem.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/DAVID-MILIBAND-COTTON-TOILET-COVER/dp/B004ZQYPWO/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1321800240&sr=8-13

From Reading to Gatwick you go via Wokingham and Guildford. It includes a disconcerting bit where you pull into a station one way and then start going in the opposite direction from then on.

Looks like you need 2 changes, unless there is a direct train at some odd hour:

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/BHI/GTW/tomorrow/0945/dep/tomorrow/1145/dep

Balls: not so much a double agent as political double pneumonia for the Labour party.