DavidL,
the two objects can be moving at 0.75c each relative to an outside observer, but to each other they are moving at no more than 1.0c, theory of special relativity is exactly that – perception is relative depending on the position of the observer. Spooky but true, unfortunately human perception is used to Newtonian mechanics where what you say works, at close to lightspeed really weird (to human perception) stuff happens

To join the conversation.

There’s this thing called the Doppler effect where, with sound, an object coming towards you making a sound, sounds higher and an object moving away sounds lower. This is seen with a train whistle, or (for MD’s benefit) the nyoooooom of F1.

With light, the same happens but the light gets red or blue shifted as the wavelength this lengthened (moving away) or shortened (moving towards). This effect limits the observable size of the universe as the shortest wavelengths get red shifted to nowt at the limit of observation (expanding universe).

To come to your example, the two vehicle wouldn’t see each other as the wavelengths would be dopplered out. I think I’ve got that right

297, Mr. Slackbladder, I agree. 1.45 were not good odds, especially given the uncertainty over true pace in P3. I was also looking at backing Sutil for Q3, but decided against that (not much money available) and laying Webber for top 3 (glad I didn’t do that).

So, I made a tiny sum backing Button to be top 3, and lost a little by hedging (can’t complain though as it was an utter fluke on my part).

Betting Post

Webber to win at 9.6.

I really didn’t anticipate making such a bet/tip, but almost 9/1 for a second place chap to win is madness. If Vettel starts poorly (admittedly Webber’s done that more of late) or has a mechanical failure, or makes a small error and hits the wall, or gets stuck behind traffic post pit-stop, or has a slow pit stop Webber could easily win.

Set up a lay at 3.

If anybody says he can think about quantum physics without getting giddy, that only shows he has not understood the first thing about them.
Niels Bohr

For all those musing about neutrinos and time travel – here is incontrovertible evidence.

http://yfrog.com/nvzsssfj

Two spaceships moving at 0.75c relative to C in opposite directions
0.75c <—- A .. .. B —-> 0.75c

Observer on earth, C.

Newtonian mechanics:
Person C sees the distance between A and B increasing at 1.5c
Measuring A/B gives a velocity of +/- 0.75c

Someone stationary with respect to A cannot see B because it’s moving away at 1.5c, so the light is moving away from you at 0.5c. Assuming it reached this speed instantaneously and started emitting light, the light will never reach you because it’s moving away from you at 0.5c. Vice versa for someone on B.

Special relativity:
Person C sees the distance between A and B increasing at 1.5c
Measuring A/B gives a velocity of +/- 0.75c

However, if someone on A measures the velocity of B (and vice versa) they don’t get 1.5c, they get something else given by the velocity addition formula derived in any undergraduate relativity course:

(0.75 + 0.75)/(1 + (0.75*0.75)) = 0.96c

Additionally if B were to shine a light in A’s direction they’d see it and measure its velocity to be exactly 1c.

Totally non intuitive but tested and working, so far.

And yeah there are two ways of looking at the effect of moving faster. One is to shove it all into a number multiplying the total energy of the body (the gamma factor), this is the way I learnt it, the other is to say that the mass has increased.

So yeah the kinetic energy of a body is different in different reference frames. Very, very weird.

Ehem, this has nothing to do with politics ^_^

the public may or may not be rejecting all sorts of things, but it does not mean they are right.

And the public generally have eyes to see and can see the mess that debt has put greece in.
The world has a debt problem. Its hard to see how it overcomes that by borrowing more.

Of course the govt have a growth strategy it was published several months ago. We find the telegraph campaigning against a key party of it.

If you measure the distance between 2 points on the earth’s surface the distance between the same points with both down a vertical hole, the earth’s curvature reduces the straight line distance (which neutrinos take) between the two points, also true if one point is down a hole and the other is on the earth’s surface

good luck selling that to the germans

I love the nsidc.org website, really easy to find arctic ice maps and how bad it is – try looking for the antarctic ice maps – which show ice has actually gone up – very hard to find.
I believe the arctic ice situation is related to man made activity but the proponents of global warming really don’t help themselves when they pull stunts like that

I read some of their PDF yesterday, they measured the exact distance of the neutrino path using some kind of synchronised GPS contraption to a very high accuracy (hundreds of thousands of metres with an error of 0.20 metres).

It becomes difficult to travel close top the speed of light because you add mass the faster you go and need ever increasing amounts of energy to travel faster.

Space is not empty ‘space’. Its ‘space-time’

I am so non plussed by Ed M that it’s depressing. I cant remember voting for a party other than Labour-or perhaps lib/dem since I started voting but I’d struggle to vote for Ed. Just one cliche after another.

I ask all Labour members and leadership voters ‘What were you thinking about?’ you have destroyed Labour’s chances against one of the flimsiest governments I can remember

Twitter
GlenysThornton Glenys Thornton
by JohnRentoul
Honorary Sister Ed Milliband listening to the debate before addressing Women’s conference. He got a great welcome.

Edit : Sorry, but this one made me laugh. I now have this vision of Ed Miliband appearing in drag at a feminist rally.

334, was he wearing a skirt or trouser suit, Miss Fitalass? :p

yep, you can get very accurate gps signals, we do F1 simulator track models (keeping Morris Dancer interested) using LIDAR and higrade differential gps, but gps does not work down a hole which makes me wonder if they messed up their sums…

So was Nicholas Ridley correct after all and should he be given a posthumous pardon?

Twitter
JohnRentoul John Rentoul
Honorary sister Ed Miliband: “Labour is back as a party of them”? This is not going well bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi…

‘I’m going to love PMQ’s when Cameron asks Ed if he is in touch with his feminine side…’

Baldwin should suggest that Miliband launches into ‘So Macho’ rather than into ‘Sisters are doing it for themselves’.

Not too sure what all the fuss about these neutrinos is about. I’m not Einstein clearly but I’ve come across a number of things faster than the speed of light. My top five are :

1. Alex Ferguson chewing gum.
2. Chris Huhne in any horseless carriage.
3. SeanT in any Bangkok bordello.
4. LibDem barcharts produced in a parliamentary by-election.
5. Eric Pickles reading a menu.

aint no joke, jascow. wish it was. vaccines are being found out in many parts of the world to be sterilising agents. Bill Gates said they would and they are.

And yet again the political and financial establishments are trying to sort out a solvency problem with extra liquidity.

The reasons for the economic problems are based on inbalances between wealth creation and wealth consumption, a collapse in productivity growth and massive malinvestment.

Simply giving banks another few hundred billion isn’t going to sort out any of those problems.

I love that tap’s post was in green…

Indeed. We’ve been paying ourselves too much for over a decade. Simple as that.

Except the politicians can’t say that.

From what I’ve read so far I will be surprised if it is an error with the clocks or surveyed positions. They do seem to have done a very thorough job of determining the locations and accounting for timing errors.

They are likely to be wrong, but there’s no reason to think that they have made a simple or obvious mistake.

Even finding the source of the error is likely to be fruitful for science.

Simply giving banks another few hundred billion trillion isn’t going to sort out any of those problems.

There fixed that for you.

Roger asked “I ask all Labour members and leadership voters ‘What were you thinking about?’ you have destroyed Labour’s chances against one of the flimsiest governments I can remember

The voters who made the difference in the vote – the union members – would respond with “well the only election advice I had with my ballot paper was to vote for EdM … so I did”.

The Labour conference has started badly for Ed Miliband, with David Blunkett criticising the party for allowing the Tories to define the national economic debate. Blunkett was concurring with shadow foreign secretary Douglas Alexander’s view that the Tories had been successful in “framing a public language that made more sense of the economic crisis”. To be fair to Miliband, he made the same point in his recent interview with the New Statesman, but he is yet to provide a coherent or credible alternative to the government’s policies.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/7264103/searching-for-an-alternative.thtml

The Labour Party has no alternative, and everything they do say is wrong.

God knows why anyone supports them.

Ed Miliband has incredibly peculiar mannerisms. He never looks very assured, he always fidgets and moves from side to side as he speaks. I know this is a very superficial criticism, but it makes him look quite shifty IMHO.

It’s not quite as bad as the Gordon Brown Expenses Video Disaster, but at times it’s getting there.

the eurozone’s sovereign debt crisis is spiralling out of control.

Labour’s answer?

More debt.

Ed should publicly flog the other Ed while covering his head in ashes (the ashes of a ceremonial cremation of his blank sheet of paper perhaps)

Never voted Labour? Then what are you?

As for playing the ball. This is not a game of football dontcha know….

Shocking. Glacier melt all the time, they grow and they shink, they sometimes do it over long periods of time. To align this with climate change, and to show it as evidence that is indisputable is rather silly.

She sees what she wants to see, she interprets what she wants to interpret.

new thread

IDS had no support in the media. Large corporations love the EU and own the media. Only europhiles can ever win elections. Gaitskell and John Smith were CIAed with heart attack potions, to make way for Wilson and
Blair, who were EU stooges, as was Brown.

IDS was got rid of by the media and a small majority of his own MPs who pulled up the white flag. Thatcher was axed when she realised she was a eurosceptic and didn’t want to agree to Maastricht. Somehow she survived the Brighton bomb, while Airey Neave, her right hand man, wasn’t so lucky.

Cameron acted eurosceptic to get elected, but is clearly totally sold out to the EU, and the wars a was Blair.

The purpose of socialism is the dumbing down and impoverishment of society, leaving the elite that imposes it in complete mastery. The elites hate capitalism as others are able to come up and compete with them – the very last thing they want. Wall St funded the Russian Revolution, Stalin’s victory in WW2, and the ending of Britain’s Empire, and has sat back while socialism and communism has taken over the world.

Mike S I was ‘discarded at the age of 11′ and think grammars and sec mods are still a good idea as long as there is no ‘sink’ mentality in running the latter which should cater for all talents and there should be inter-transferability at 13 and 16.

I transferred at 16 thanks to Tory councillors.